WDI USA president Kara Dansky & Lierre Keith, (WoLF), advocate nonviolent direct action to oppose gender identity policy. But is NVDA an effective and appropriate tactic for this fight?
I read up to the point you labelled KD and KJK as 'far right'. You are wrong. These are women who are simply indiscriminate. There is a difference. At that point you lost all credibility. Because you lost credibility, so did your argument. I have no idea what you wrote after that because I don't have the stamina to plough through text which is so compromised. Start again.
I think YOU need to start again reading. I did not label KD and KJK as "far right." I said Keen was a "fixture on far right podcasts" - and that is a documented fact. I said Kara has a "history of working with right wing organizations - also documented and she doesn't deny, nor is ashamed of having done so. Please read carefully before complaining about things I did not write.
At no point are they labelled as 'far right'. I assume you mean this para? "Both Dansky and Keith have a history of working with right wing organizations such as Concerned Women for America and Heritage Foundation, and WoLF and WDI USA have written a number of amicus briefs for Alliance Defending Freedom cases. Ahead of the event, Rose City Antifa published a post describing the connections of both WoLF and WDI USA to the radical right and accusing them of being faux feminist groups. These connections, and the banner, are signifiers to many of “right wing anti-trans activism,” compromising their message and undermining their stated intent to simply demonstrate “male violence against women.” One sign protesting their event read, “Feminists don’t support the alt-right.”
Rose City Antifa doesn't give a damn about feminism or who has the right to call herself a feminist! The group is of course overwhelmingly comprised of men. Misogynist men! Very clever of one of them to carry a sign saying "Feminists don’t support the alt-right", in order to besmirch the women who were going to be speaking about how women are harmed by male violence in its many forms. The only kind of feminism the men of Rose City Antifa care about is the branch of liberal feminism which thinks it is puritanical to disapprove of pornography and prostitution. I am a lesbian radical feminist activist in Portland and have been assaulted by these men at a different women's speaking event.
This is one of the best articles I’ve seen on this topic. I learned a lot and will be doing more reading on the history. I just read Frederick Douglass’s first-hand account of refusing to get a beating from his owner. Fighting back-physically-changed his soul from that of a slave to that of a man
I’m not clear what alternate strategy you are recommending in this situation. How do we defend the movement from physical assault? i think specific proposals would be helpful. The most important thing is growing the movement and getting more women to participate. It’s hard to do that if there’s a good chance of ending up in the ER. Or worse.
I don’t think there is anything “right wing” about the banner nor that the women were attacked because they took money from Right wing groups (even though ai disagree with that). Anyone who is visibly gender critical or asserts that sex exists & women exist as a sex class will receive the same kind of attacks. Though i am far Left, I have been called a fascist and bigot multiple times and lost my job for some of these reasons.
I don’t have easy answers. But it is time to start shaming the Left for tolerating this antiwoman violence in the name of “trans rights” and “antifascism”. These thugs should be disowned by all progressive people, and feminists welcomed in.
"I’m not clear what alternate strategy you are recommending in this situation. How do we defend the movement from physical assault? i think specific proposals would be helpful. " That would be another article. What I wanted to do here is provide a more complex understanding of NVDA in the civil rights era because that is what Lierre Keith and Kara Dansky draw on to explain the value of NVDA to their followers.
"The most important thing is growing the movement and getting more women to participate." From what I'm hearing, NVDA is dissuading women who were already participating from continuing to participate.
"I don’t think there is anything “right wing” about the banner nor that the women were attacked because they took money from Right wing groups " Here I'm talking about perception, Ann, and the role of optics with this tactic.
I agree there are no easy answers. But I think there is enough creativity and intelligence among women who are pushing back against infringement of our rights by gender identity policy to come up with better ideas. Of course, grown women get to make their own choices. My goal here was to provide more information for informed choices.
Thanks for your engagement. I hope you are well, Ann!
Thanks for this article and for not cherry picking the civil rights movement and NVDA etc like Kara and Lierre seem to loooove to do.
This is America 🇺🇸 we have the right to defend ourselves. We should not allow ourselves to be doormats. Women are raped and murdered every day and no one gives a fuck.
We are responsible for our safety no one is coming to save us. We have the right to bear arms and we should exercise that right. Join local gun clubs and take gun safety classes. Being prepared is one of the best things my mentor has taught me. That and practice makes perfect. Don’t Panic and Be Prepared.
Well, I don't want to live in a "wild west" society with everyone brandishing guns all the time, and constant shooting, and I think assault weapons should be banned, but I am realistic about violence and self-defense. I do want to point out that the Deacons were very disciplined about judicious use of self-defense. They were not about escalating or causing violence, but protecting people and defending where necessary. Some of them were military veterans and they screened their members for criminal background, etc. You should read the whole book! It's a fascinating story, well-told.
You may also like Her Own Hero about women and self-defense in the 19th century. Women were very keen on learning to defend themselves, whether through taking jiu jitsu or expert use of a hatpin! I didn't realize until reading that book how much violence UK feminists were subject to agitating for the vote. They were beaten by the POLICE as well anti-feminist thugs. So they had to get serious about self-defense.
I will def check those books out. I know the Deacons were extremely disciplined. No one should own a gun who isn’t. I live in a state with open carry where everyone is raised on how to use a gun, how to take them apart and put them back together after cleaning them and how they actually work. I am a metal smith so I know gun smiths and gun engravers etc and appreciate the craftsmanship. School children used to have rifle shooting class at school in many parts of the country. The state I live in has a girls farm and wilderness summer camp and the girls there win best sharp shooters in the country in whatever league it is they compete in. They are about 12 years old. I think that is pretty cool. I’ve lived in areas with strict gun laws with horrible gun violence due to all the illegal guns and the dopes that don’t know how to use them and I’ve almost been hit by stray bullets a few times due to how irresponsible these young n dumb criminals are. I’m more comfortable now living in a state where I have the right to protect myself and my home. One has to be more specific when they say assault weapon as that can mean anything. People always point to AR15 but while AR15s can come with larger bullets most people own ones that are 22 which is tiny tiny bullets.
I guess I have reconciled that this is America and no matter what guns are not going anywhere and taking them out of lawful citizens hands just makes it so more criminals have them. I’ve seen it my whole life and it was why I was so terrified of them for a while. Not anymore. I would take the Wild West over this technocratic plutocracy any day right about now. At least for now I would. Thanks for the book recommendations I will definitely check them out!!
There was a sacrificial aspect to Suffragette defiance - women activists repeatedly putting themselves in situations that defied the law and earning themselves prison sentences. Actions like spitting in the faces of policemen. Hunger striking repeatedly and consequent injury to the women from repeated stomach feeding rubber rudely administered through the nose or throat. The women were celebrated for these sacrifices to health safety and reputation with medals and were even paraded on white horses on release from prison to be feted at a specially arranged banquet.
I believe Lierre Kieth is particularly influenced by the UK Suffragette tactics.
Our backs are to the wall. We need to use all our tactical ingenuity so as to come up with novel ways to resist suited to our various geographical and socio-political situations.
Spitting at policemen is not NVDA as Lierre Keith trains women to do. What she is telling women to do, as was done in the civil rights era, is to passively accept any abuse. So spitting on policemen would not be part of one of her actions; putting up with anyone spitting on the women would be.
Moreover, it's interesting that Keith is inspired by the UK suffragettes, many of whom became militant out of necessity. They faced much more violence than American suffragists; the police as well as anti-feminists beat them up. And so they turned to self-defense, even learning jiu-jitsu and a small group forming a bodyguard for the WSPU. Is she leaving that part out when she gives her talks? A quote below from Her Own Hero, a great history of women's self-defense in the progressive era. I will post a dissection of Keith's teachings on NVDA in the new year.
"In this more militant context, self-defense training took on explicit political meaning as suffragettes sought to invert the violence directed at them. In response to such violent outbursts from antisuffragists and blatant abuses of authority by the police, members of the WSPU determined to physically defend themselves from attack. Gertrude Harding helped to organize a bodyguard for the WSPU in England, explaining that the purpose was to protect the Pankhursts from assault by the police.30 By 1909, Edith Garrud, who had studied under Raku Uyenshi in England, was asked to teach jiu-jitsu to the bodyguard of the WSPU. Garrud welcomed all women who sought self-defense training; she advertised her class in suffrage newspapers as “ju-jutsu for suffragettes” and promised to teach “special methods for suffragette self-defence.”31 The estimated twenty-five to thirty female recruits of the bodyguard practiced self-defense in secret, hid from the police, and changed their meeting locations frequently after discovering that detectives were spying on and following them." p130
Spitting at policemen is not NVDA - point taken. It can be grievious bodily harm potentially spreading TB and other diseases. It was a militant tactic and so a bad example. WSPU style - though part sacrificial by almost ensuring the horror conditions of imprisonment for militants
I think Lierre Keith and Kara Danksy have on rose coloured glasses. They think that people care when women are harmed and seriously underestimate the amount of violence that trans privilege activists are willing to do to women.
Being gender critical is NOT "far right" or "alt right"
When liberal media is completely captured and ONLY conservative -leaning platforms have dared to give the issue ANY coverage, it's libelous to describe WDI or any members as "right-wing"
This issue affects ALL women and ALL parents of any political stripe, and it affects ALL children, particularly autistic spectrum kids.
Nowhere in the piece do I say being gender critical is far right or alt right. I talked about the connections of the women involved with the far right (e.g. KJK a fixture on far right podcasts) and WoLF and WDI working with radical right organizations that are part of the Council for National Policy, and the optics of this; the optics of the banner associated with KJK. Because NVDA is about performance and optics.
I read up to the point you labelled KD and KJK as 'far right'. You are wrong. These are women who are simply indiscriminate. There is a difference. At that point you lost all credibility. Because you lost credibility, so did your argument. I have no idea what you wrote after that because I don't have the stamina to plough through text which is so compromised. Start again.
I think YOU need to start again reading. I did not label KD and KJK as "far right." I said Keen was a "fixture on far right podcasts" - and that is a documented fact. I said Kara has a "history of working with right wing organizations - also documented and she doesn't deny, nor is ashamed of having done so. Please read carefully before complaining about things I did not write.
At no point are they labelled as 'far right'. I assume you mean this para? "Both Dansky and Keith have a history of working with right wing organizations such as Concerned Women for America and Heritage Foundation, and WoLF and WDI USA have written a number of amicus briefs for Alliance Defending Freedom cases. Ahead of the event, Rose City Antifa published a post describing the connections of both WoLF and WDI USA to the radical right and accusing them of being faux feminist groups. These connections, and the banner, are signifiers to many of “right wing anti-trans activism,” compromising their message and undermining their stated intent to simply demonstrate “male violence against women.” One sign protesting their event read, “Feminists don’t support the alt-right.”
Rose City Antifa doesn't give a damn about feminism or who has the right to call herself a feminist! The group is of course overwhelmingly comprised of men. Misogynist men! Very clever of one of them to carry a sign saying "Feminists don’t support the alt-right", in order to besmirch the women who were going to be speaking about how women are harmed by male violence in its many forms. The only kind of feminism the men of Rose City Antifa care about is the branch of liberal feminism which thinks it is puritanical to disapprove of pornography and prostitution. I am a lesbian radical feminist activist in Portland and have been assaulted by these men at a different women's speaking event.
This is one of the best articles I’ve seen on this topic. I learned a lot and will be doing more reading on the history. I just read Frederick Douglass’s first-hand account of refusing to get a beating from his owner. Fighting back-physically-changed his soul from that of a slave to that of a man
Thank-you, Shani - I remember that about Frederick Douglass!
I’m not clear what alternate strategy you are recommending in this situation. How do we defend the movement from physical assault? i think specific proposals would be helpful. The most important thing is growing the movement and getting more women to participate. It’s hard to do that if there’s a good chance of ending up in the ER. Or worse.
I don’t think there is anything “right wing” about the banner nor that the women were attacked because they took money from Right wing groups (even though ai disagree with that). Anyone who is visibly gender critical or asserts that sex exists & women exist as a sex class will receive the same kind of attacks. Though i am far Left, I have been called a fascist and bigot multiple times and lost my job for some of these reasons.
I don’t have easy answers. But it is time to start shaming the Left for tolerating this antiwoman violence in the name of “trans rights” and “antifascism”. These thugs should be disowned by all progressive people, and feminists welcomed in.
"I’m not clear what alternate strategy you are recommending in this situation. How do we defend the movement from physical assault? i think specific proposals would be helpful. " That would be another article. What I wanted to do here is provide a more complex understanding of NVDA in the civil rights era because that is what Lierre Keith and Kara Dansky draw on to explain the value of NVDA to their followers.
"The most important thing is growing the movement and getting more women to participate." From what I'm hearing, NVDA is dissuading women who were already participating from continuing to participate.
"I don’t think there is anything “right wing” about the banner nor that the women were attacked because they took money from Right wing groups " Here I'm talking about perception, Ann, and the role of optics with this tactic.
I agree there are no easy answers. But I think there is enough creativity and intelligence among women who are pushing back against infringement of our rights by gender identity policy to come up with better ideas. Of course, grown women get to make their own choices. My goal here was to provide more information for informed choices.
Thanks for your engagement. I hope you are well, Ann!
Stay strapped for one. This is America after all we have the right to bear arms
Thanks for this article and for not cherry picking the civil rights movement and NVDA etc like Kara and Lierre seem to loooove to do.
This is America 🇺🇸 we have the right to defend ourselves. We should not allow ourselves to be doormats. Women are raped and murdered every day and no one gives a fuck.
We are responsible for our safety no one is coming to save us. We have the right to bear arms and we should exercise that right. Join local gun clubs and take gun safety classes. Being prepared is one of the best things my mentor has taught me. That and practice makes perfect. Don’t Panic and Be Prepared.
Well, I don't want to live in a "wild west" society with everyone brandishing guns all the time, and constant shooting, and I think assault weapons should be banned, but I am realistic about violence and self-defense. I do want to point out that the Deacons were very disciplined about judicious use of self-defense. They were not about escalating or causing violence, but protecting people and defending where necessary. Some of them were military veterans and they screened their members for criminal background, etc. You should read the whole book! It's a fascinating story, well-told.
You may also like Her Own Hero about women and self-defense in the 19th century. Women were very keen on learning to defend themselves, whether through taking jiu jitsu or expert use of a hatpin! I didn't realize until reading that book how much violence UK feminists were subject to agitating for the vote. They were beaten by the POLICE as well anti-feminist thugs. So they had to get serious about self-defense.
I will def check those books out. I know the Deacons were extremely disciplined. No one should own a gun who isn’t. I live in a state with open carry where everyone is raised on how to use a gun, how to take them apart and put them back together after cleaning them and how they actually work. I am a metal smith so I know gun smiths and gun engravers etc and appreciate the craftsmanship. School children used to have rifle shooting class at school in many parts of the country. The state I live in has a girls farm and wilderness summer camp and the girls there win best sharp shooters in the country in whatever league it is they compete in. They are about 12 years old. I think that is pretty cool. I’ve lived in areas with strict gun laws with horrible gun violence due to all the illegal guns and the dopes that don’t know how to use them and I’ve almost been hit by stray bullets a few times due to how irresponsible these young n dumb criminals are. I’m more comfortable now living in a state where I have the right to protect myself and my home. One has to be more specific when they say assault weapon as that can mean anything. People always point to AR15 but while AR15s can come with larger bullets most people own ones that are 22 which is tiny tiny bullets.
I guess I have reconciled that this is America and no matter what guns are not going anywhere and taking them out of lawful citizens hands just makes it so more criminals have them. I’ve seen it my whole life and it was why I was so terrified of them for a while. Not anymore. I would take the Wild West over this technocratic plutocracy any day right about now. At least for now I would. Thanks for the book recommendations I will definitely check them out!!
There was a sacrificial aspect to Suffragette defiance - women activists repeatedly putting themselves in situations that defied the law and earning themselves prison sentences. Actions like spitting in the faces of policemen. Hunger striking repeatedly and consequent injury to the women from repeated stomach feeding rubber rudely administered through the nose or throat. The women were celebrated for these sacrifices to health safety and reputation with medals and were even paraded on white horses on release from prison to be feted at a specially arranged banquet.
I believe Lierre Kieth is particularly influenced by the UK Suffragette tactics.
Our backs are to the wall. We need to use all our tactical ingenuity so as to come up with novel ways to resist suited to our various geographical and socio-political situations.
Spitting at policemen is not NVDA as Lierre Keith trains women to do. What she is telling women to do, as was done in the civil rights era, is to passively accept any abuse. So spitting on policemen would not be part of one of her actions; putting up with anyone spitting on the women would be.
Moreover, it's interesting that Keith is inspired by the UK suffragettes, many of whom became militant out of necessity. They faced much more violence than American suffragists; the police as well as anti-feminists beat them up. And so they turned to self-defense, even learning jiu-jitsu and a small group forming a bodyguard for the WSPU. Is she leaving that part out when she gives her talks? A quote below from Her Own Hero, a great history of women's self-defense in the progressive era. I will post a dissection of Keith's teachings on NVDA in the new year.
"In this more militant context, self-defense training took on explicit political meaning as suffragettes sought to invert the violence directed at them. In response to such violent outbursts from antisuffragists and blatant abuses of authority by the police, members of the WSPU determined to physically defend themselves from attack. Gertrude Harding helped to organize a bodyguard for the WSPU in England, explaining that the purpose was to protect the Pankhursts from assault by the police.30 By 1909, Edith Garrud, who had studied under Raku Uyenshi in England, was asked to teach jiu-jitsu to the bodyguard of the WSPU. Garrud welcomed all women who sought self-defense training; she advertised her class in suffrage newspapers as “ju-jutsu for suffragettes” and promised to teach “special methods for suffragette self-defence.”31 The estimated twenty-five to thirty female recruits of the bodyguard practiced self-defense in secret, hid from the police, and changed their meeting locations frequently after discovering that detectives were spying on and following them." p130
Spitting at policemen is not NVDA - point taken. It can be grievious bodily harm potentially spreading TB and other diseases. It was a militant tactic and so a bad example. WSPU style - though part sacrificial by almost ensuring the horror conditions of imprisonment for militants
Thanks for posting the extract.
You may have watched this.
https://youtu.be/sjF3NkHxvlw
I think Lierre Keith and Kara Danksy have on rose coloured glasses. They think that people care when women are harmed and seriously underestimate the amount of violence that trans privilege activists are willing to do to women.
Being gender critical is NOT "far right" or "alt right"
When liberal media is completely captured and ONLY conservative -leaning platforms have dared to give the issue ANY coverage, it's libelous to describe WDI or any members as "right-wing"
This issue affects ALL women and ALL parents of any political stripe, and it affects ALL children, particularly autistic spectrum kids.
Nowhere in the piece do I say being gender critical is far right or alt right. I talked about the connections of the women involved with the far right (e.g. KJK a fixture on far right podcasts) and WoLF and WDI working with radical right organizations that are part of the Council for National Policy, and the optics of this; the optics of the banner associated with KJK. Because NVDA is about performance and optics.
Public service, this! Thank you! I'm just reading around threads on this event and its fallout. Kind of overwhelming.